To us.
To us.
Angel: 3x02 That Vision Thing
Angel: 3x02 That Vision Thing
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angelsdarla: Female Character Meme [x] A female character...
Female Character Meme [x] A female character growth arc
Cordelia Chase [BtVs/AtS]
Cordelia Chase Alphabet↳ Gut instincts
Cordelia Chase Alphabet
↳ Gut instincts
shewhohangsoutincemeteries: Top Twenty Buffyverse Characters...
Top Twenty Buffyverse Characters (in no particular order) | Cordelia Chase
"I'm not a sniveling, whiny, little cry-Buffy. I'm the nastiest girl in Sunnydale history. I take crap from no one."
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favorite cordelia & buffy moments → 01/??
favorite cordelia & buffy moments → 02/??
Charles Gunn appreciation post
Charles Gunn appreciation post
Cordelia Chase Alphabet↳ Improvisation and craftiness at the...
Cordelia Chase Alphabet
↳ Improvisation and craftiness at the skill
simpleandtall: "Cordelia, could you drive me home?" "Of course." SHE DIDN'T HESITATE A SECOND. NOT...
"Cordelia, could you drive me home?"
"Of course."
SHE DIDN'T HESITATE A SECOND. NOT ONE. SO DON'T YOU DARE SHIT ON HER!
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ezriela: James and Charisma Buffy/Angel Panel Philly Comic Con...
James and Charisma Buffy/Angel Panel Philly Comic Con (by xXsam1HelenXx)
alisonchrista: Lauren Bacall, Betty Grable and Marilyn...
Lauren Bacall, Betty Grable and Marilyn Monroe
Is this on set of How to Marry a Millionaire?
Amy Adams talks Smallville & Tom Welling on Jimmy Kimmel...
Amy Adams talks Smallville & Tom Welling on Jimmy Kimmel Live (Full Video)
dear-white-people: justinsimien: lilliep: lilliep: Dear...
Dear White People (2012)
DEAR WHITE PEOPLE follows the stories of four black students at an Ivy League college where a riot breaks out over a popular "African American" themed party thrown by white students. With tongue planted firmly in cheek, the film will explore racial identity in "post-racial" America while weaving a universal story of forging one's unique path in the world.
ETA:
Help send the film to the Tribeca Industry Meetings vote here.
I know ppl are still reblogging this so edited to include the voting link.
The #DearWhitePeople Union is UNSTOPPABLE. So excited to make a movie you will love as much as we love you! (which is a lot lot)
The Devils Advocate: herestoyoumsholly: bigbardafree: if you legit know nothing about...
The Devils Advocate: herestoyoumsholly: bigbardafree: if you legit know nothing about...:therearecertainshadesoflimelight:
therearecertainshadesoflimelight:
if you legit know nothing about comics that's the only excuse you could have for not understanding why clark/diana is such a terrible thing to happen
Funny story, my boyfriend's cousin, who isn't into comics all that much, saw my copy of the 'Young…
I'm sure it could be done well (I don't know how they're handling it as I haven't read any of it yet) but I don't know the justification for it?? I'm not totally opposed to Superman being with Wonder Woman, but I mean…why?
I do think it's silly doing it when Lois is around, but like, if my memory isn't playing tricks on me, Kingdom Come ends with the idea Clark & Lois are together (and having a kid) and I remember actually really loving that bit.
Everyone was in character, it fit the story showing he'd moved on, they're extremely close friends who did think about getting together before (I remember an arc where they were fighting Ragnarok in some alt-dimension)
I really don't get the really strong hate people have for that pairing.
Now, Diana/Bruce I can understand hate for, but tons of people do ship that one.
Yeah, Kingdom Come did it good. I guess it's just weird to me that Lois is put aside.
Oh Christ. I hate to be the bearer of "I gotta call misogyny/women in refrigerators bullshit" here but….well…someone has to do it.
Kingdom Come is a narrative beloved by many people but it also has staggering, staggeringly bad gender problems. Really bad. Wonder Woman's treatment in the book is so bad that Mark Waid has actually apologized for it. She's not only not in-character in the book but she's horrifically out of character.
Lois is brutally fridged off-page in Kingdom Come and isn't even spoken by her NAME until one instance in the book. She's a dead body and that's it. They attempted to go back in and fix this problem in the follow-up books but the original way it was done was really, really poor.
Kingdom Come is a fridging straight up. You can still like the book. You can like the story and the art. But it has serious gender issues.
Ironically, Mark Waid actually commented on Superman/WW in Kingdom Come during the interview he did for the Gender in Comics Course and he said straight up that looking back now, in retrospect, he's not sure that the ending of KC was a "good plot point" and he's not sure the relationship would even work long term. He's not proud of the ending of KC and he's openly admitted over the years that he wrote Diana poorly in the book.
Then you reach the problem that even if you want to defend Kingdom Come or the idea of this that means you have to defend the idea of getting Lois out of the way. Considering the ridiculous amount of times Lois has been fridged, beaten, raped, killed off and abused in comics to "get her out of the way"—-that's really a problematic argument.
But all of this is really beside the point. The relationship is problematic to people because it disrespects, at it's core, not only the creator's visions for both characters but some of the vital aspects of both mythos. It's completely in contrast with Marson's concept for Wonder Woman and has been openly derided by the Siegel estate—they believe it disrespects Siegel's vision of Superman. (As if the Siegels have not been through enough.) It assumes that both of these characters would be as shallow about "equality" as we might be as opposed to recognizing they are both incredible people who see beauty and love in people who's special qualties might be less obvious to others. It negates Wonder Woman's ability to be the star of her own narrative and encourages the general public to see her as an appendage of Superman's narrative. It negates Clark Kent's dual identity as both man/hero as it removes him from the position of being madly in love with a mortal while he straddles the challenge of secret identity and superheroism. It disrespects Clark Kent being raised by the Kents as it perpetuates the idea that though he was raised by two mortals who took a chance on him and loved without fear even though they have no guarantees by implying that Clark isn't brave enough to do the same. It presents uncomfortable views about sex as it encourages men to perpeuate this idea that women should be able to "take" however hard a man wants to pound into them as opposed to the idea that a man that loves you would be capable of being gentle if you asked him to. It equates Lois and Diana as being nothing more than the strength of their vaginas. It encourages men to view Diana as a sex object in the male gaze and as the "hottest girl" worthy of Superman. It degrades Lois Lane's humanity and will of steel by implying that she's not worthy of a god because she's flawed and human despite her incredible accomplishments. It suggests abelism as it implies that those with physical gifts somehow "better" than those without physical gifts. It degrades the two most famous women in comics and pits them against each other over a f***ing man. The list goes on and on and on and on. Those much smarter than I am have written pages about this bullshit.
When people say they are against this relationship, there actually ARE reasons and they are legit gendered reasons. If you don't understand the hate that people have it might be because you don't really understand the characters.
**Also, that story you are referencing where they were fighting for a 1,000 years. Re-read it. The point of the story was that Clark would love Lois until the end of time and that he viewed Diana as his best friend and nothing more. Diana supported that completely and agreed with him.
Sorry I just now saw this.
1- I'm not talking about KC or the armageddon story stories as a whole, I'm talking about the core cencept of a relationship between Superman and Wonder Woman
2- See this post.
http://shield-agent-merrick.tumblr.com/post/52167640603/let-me-note-something-when-i-say-i-dont-see-a
it basically points out most of what I'd say in response, in a much more condensed form
3- So because I disagree with you about whether the two characters PERSONALITIES (Not "real life issues of how people would read things into their relationship" but the characters) and whether or not their personalities would be able to form a decent relationship…. I'm someone who "doesn't understand the characters.
Shortening for length only bc this is so long.
I disagree with your understanding of the characters. I appreciate that you have loved both characters for so long and that you are so committed to both mythos.
It's very easy to say that none of these "real world" messages about gender should be taken into consideration except it's not that easy.
In the real world, relationships (unless they are abusive in nature) can't be inherantly disrespectful but in fiction they can especially when you are dealing with two distinct feminist icons and a male icon that has served as an inspiration to millions of people. These characters—-what they do, what they say—-all stand for something now. And comics, as a genre, struggle with gender so badly that this kind of thing can't be separated.
It's also weird to me that you would reference Rucka as an authority on Wonder Woman to your friends (I agree—he is) when Rucka is notoriously against Superman/WW for all the reasons I listed and more. He loathes it.
But even if we could throw out the gender/society/mythos commentary and just take the characters at face value (which we can't) I still don't really agree that it makes sense on a personality perspective. When it comes down to it, Clark and Diana are both calm, wise and steady in a way that doesn't invoke challenge or chemistry and yet they have staggerly different viewpoints, at times, on really important life decisions. I think they make excellent best friends (and I love their friendship) but I don't see the fire required for lasting love. From a religious standpoint, Clark has been shown to worship/represent a patriarchal god in a Judeo-Christian tradition in a way that would be completely abhorrent to Diana's upbringing since it would quite literally cut her off at the knees to have her share those views. It would be outright disrespect for her culture to even acknowledge it's existance. Outside of saving the world, they don't actually have that much in common outside of the fact that they are both strikingly beautiful people who look similar and fight on the same team. But then again, Clark and Bruce have a passion for justice too. Just like any two soliders might. Clark arguably, has more in common with Lois since she shares his interest in the written word and was, like Clark, raised a human. Clark also arguably has more personality sparks with Lois since he is soft where she is sharp and he is sharp where she is soft. He is quiet where she is loud. She will stand up where he will stand down. Diana and Clark are similar, in part, because when Marston created Diana he literally set out to create a female Superman. Not a MATE for Superman. But a Superman who was a woman. Clark and Diana are not yin and yang. They are yin and yin. Designed to fill the same space with similar characteristics yet strikingly different in areas of purpose and message. Clark is the ultimate immigrant. Diana, however, is NOT an immigrant. She's an ambassador. Her goal, eventually, is to change the World of Man for the better and then return to Paraside Island. Clark's goal is to live among us as one of us. They are distinctly different missions and worldviews. Yes, in real life, different people fall in love. And Lois and Clark are VASTLY different. But they are the same where it counts—when it counts in ways that keep marriages together long term. And there's a reason for this: they were literally created to compliment each other.
And that's actually the most obvious answer for HIM. He doesn't love Diana because he's in love with someone else.
But all this aside, I just disagree that the societal/gender implications that people find so offensive should be cast off bc they are outside perspectives/implications and not related to personality. It's just not that simple. Not when misogyny in comics is such a huge problem. Not when gender roles for women in media is such a huge problem. Not when you are dealing with two of the most influential characters in the world—-3 if you count Lois who also has a deep meaning to millions of people. But, if you want to make it simple…I also just think they would be freaking bored with each other. Bored to tears.
You stated that you didn't understand why people loathed the relationship so much. I answered your question the best I could.
starlingcityvk: Sergio Aragones presents "A MAD look at "Man of...
Sergio Aragones presents "A MAD look at "Man of Steel" (from "MAD Presents Superman #1")
That awkward moment when there's a gay couple in the bible and nobody talks about it.
we were taught about how David and Jonathan were ~best bros~
when this was
obviously
not the case
#that time there was a gay couple in the bible and nobody talked about it ever
People do talk about it. This is not an original point. Some churches actually do talk about it, but it’s not “mainstream”.
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